MarTech Interview with Lex Avellino, Founder & CMO at Passage

Lex Avellino, Founder & CMO at Passage talks about the future of Web3 in this conversation with MarTech Series:

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Welcome to this MarTech Series chat, Lex. Tell us about yourself and the inspiration behind Passage…

I started the creative studio that inspired Passage back in 2017. During that time, we worked with some prominent brands to create virtual and physical experiences and events. For example, we worked with Warner Brothers on major movie launches like It Chapter Two and The Lego Movie 2.

We also worked on a lot of different virtual experiences, some of which got built out as part of unique experiential events in Hollywood which we developed virtual components for.

Ultimately, we’ve had a long history of building exciting things for consumer audiences that were meant for engagement — both physically and virtually. We produced events for Capitol Records, Amazon, American Girl, Scooter Braun, and more. This work really inspired what we’re doing now with Passage as we’ve been able to combine our deep creative background with technical problem-solving for niche experiential events to help our partners create something truly unique and new for their audiences.

We’d love to hear more from you on the current trends you are seeing around Web3. What should today’s marketers and brands keep in mind when thinking about the connection between blockchain, AI, and Web3?

One of the main problems I see with Web3 is that people don’t have a strong Web2 background. People are marketing Web3 in a different way than they would Web2. People don’t want to buy an idea, and too much of Web3 is just ideas. That’s part of the problem.

People want to buy a product, and they buy into stories. They buy a story because they want something that says “I am going to feel good” or “I’m going to look cool.” They buy the vision in their head of what this thing or product will do for them. That’s the story you’re selling them.

However, you still have to sell a product — something tangible and real. And in Web3, so much of it at the moment is about ideals, ideas, ownership, security, whatever! It’s about what the metaverse is going to be and building your unique character because one day it’s going to be this cool thing. However, when people then go into the application and realize that it’s not so cool, that isn’t very exciting. A lot of the community makes sub-par games or experiences, slaps the title “Web3” on it, and because there is a blockchain connected to it, it’s supposed to be valuable — but it just isn’t.

I think some of the trends that have been more positive are the applications that provide real utility out of the gate; ones that don’t try to make the core principles of blockchain what they’re selling, rather they’re selling a real product that incorporates blockchain principles.

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Take us through some of the most interesting 3D and immersive experiences you have been seeing leading brands create to offer better user journeys and experiences. 

We’ve seen everything — all sorts of different brands and projects and their respective teams are building different applications, and to be honest, there isn’t a lot out there that is interesting. That’s part of why we’re building Passage.

There are two main areas where we see people compromising when it comes to 3D immersive experiences:

• The first is that immersive experiences are often too hard to get into — you have to download something, or you need a gaming computer to access them, or you require advanced technical expertise to understand how to make it all work. It’s not like your typical social media experience where you click on a YouTube link and you’re almost instantaneously watching a video. When people are discovering something new, the more steps in between — like the need for an app or a wallet — the less likely they are going to be to convert. It’s the same principle for VR-related experiences; nobody has a VR headset, I think it’s less than 1% of people. If you’re targeting people with access to VR, then you’re targeting a very, very small group of people.

• On the other hand, experiences that are super accessible, which are typically available via a browser, tend to look bad. They’re not immersive experiences, they’re not high-quality, and people associate them with old technology — even if it’s all underpinned by the latest and greatest blockchain. Ultimately, if it doesn’t look good, then people don’t have a good experience. There are a handful of exceptions to this like Roblox, for instance. Roblox doesn’t look great, but there are so many people on it who are doing stuff, largely owing to the social traction, that users end up with a really good social experience from the get-go.

Ultimately, a lot of projects are compromising in one of the above two areas — either they’re making something that is too hard to get into or it’s not attractive enough to bother because it isn’t immersive enough or high-quality. The reason we built Passage the way it is, is because it solves both issues. It’s instant — you click a link and you’re in — there are no downloads, there are no associated apps, and, at the same time, it is rendering in Unreal Engine through the cloud. This creates a really immersive, exciting experience — and we believe that we’re the most interesting project in this space for that reason.

For brands still at the cusp of evaluating how to use these technologies to their benefit, what would you share?

Build a team with a real product background that has sold something before. Part of our validation of the Passage platform was that we didn’t do it for free; Capitol Records, Amazon, and American Girl all paid top dollar for virtual experiences, and that was how we knew this was worthwhile. There will always be people who are willing to pay for a premium experience.

The next step was then making these experiences more accessible. That’s where Passage has gone as a platform; it’s no longer a niche premium service but something that anyone can get into and build with.

My advice would be to look for projects that have a track record that is aligned with what they say they’re building, with the right people behind them who have been part of producing that something real.

You come across a lot of market participants who might have succeeded in one area but are then going out on a limb and building something in Web3 where they have very, very little trust. This might be because they don’t have a technology or product background. And depending on what they’re creating, you end up with people who are basically trading in their trust who have a low ability to fulfill because they haven’t actually built trust in this area before.

Whether it’s technology in general, blockchain, or Web3, there is a sense in which you’ve got to find the right fit. Part of why I think Passage is the right fit is because we have a background in consumer technology with our virtual experiences with these large brands, but also in entertainment, having already created something exciting and interesting with the virtual events that we’ve done.

When it comes to the future of Web3, blockchain, and AI, what thoughts come to mind?

On the Web3 side, there are a lot of really good things that have yet to see their fulfillment like true ownership, decentralization, and interoperability. I believe the latter is very much the future of Web3.

I’d say the same thing with blockchain; real ownership requires interoperability but so many of the platforms and so many of the things you can do, are so new that there is very little overlap; there are a lot of isolated ecosystems right now.

In terms of AI, I think the future is primarily facilitating the growth of smaller teams, allowing them to compete with bigger teams — because AI gives you the opportunity to do more. AI allows a project to be able to fulfill niche positions and roles on a team where normally you’d need to have a big team — and a big budget — to help justify that cost. Therefore, I think AI will really help smaller teams compete with industry leaders and create a more even playing field.

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If you had to share five thoughts about the state of martech in the next decade, what would it be?

Nothing is going to replace people — that’s for sure.

I think there is a fear around AI, but folks really need to be investing in the people behind the marketing technology. It’s about finding ways you can create better recruiting programs because we’re seeing a huge decline in available talent. There is so much demand and so, so many fewer capable artists, creators, and producers. Basically, the workforce is dwindling in a lot of ways — especially the niche workforce skilled in some of these emerging technologies, in content creation, and in creative production. I believe that is another way that AI will help teams from falling apart, as it is able to help to fill some of those niche positions. However, you will always need clever people to apply that in a thoughtful way.

The biggest thought I would have is to cultivate the right people, talent, and educational programs to create more talent within your team and within your niche. From there, it’s about taking care of the people you do have at your disposal because you can’t afford to lose them right now.